Bono net policing idea draws fire

[News]

News

[Stats]

Stats

[MetalCrypt]

I knew the guy was an idiot, and it's not getting any better:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8439200.stm

Bono net policing idea draws fire

Bono, frontman of rock band U2, has warned the film industry not to make the same mistakes with file-sharing that have dogged the music industry.

Writing for the New York Times, Bono claimed internet service providers were "reverse Robin Hoods" benefiting from the music industry's lost profits.

He hinted that China's efforts prove that tracking net content is possible.

The editorial drew sharp criticism, both on its economic merits and for the suggestion of net content policing.

"The immutable laws of bandwidth tell us we're just a few years away from being able to download an entire season of '24' in 24 seconds," he wrote.

"A decade's worth of music file-sharing and swiping has made clear that the people it hurts are the creators...the people this reverse Robin Hooding benefits are rich service providers, whose swollen profits perfectly mirror the lost receipts of the music business."

In a move that drew significant criticism, Bono went on to suggest that the feasibility of tracking down file-sharers had already been proven.

"We know from America's noble effort to stop child pornography, not to mention China's ignoble effort to suppress online dissent, that it's perfectly possible to track content," he said.

Several commentators assailed both the logic of net monitoring and the economic arguments of the essay, pointing out that U2 topped 2009's list of top-grossing live acts.

"Bono has missed that even a totalitarian government...can't effectively control net-content," tweeted Cory Doctorow, a blogger and journalist noted for his study of file-sharing policy.

"If only greed and ignorance could sequester carbon, Bono could FINALLY save the planet," he added.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/technology/8439200.stm

[Master Cthulhu]

If anything filesharing stimulates the music world. Not the music industry, but they don't deserve tons of money anyways.

[Lars]

Bono should fuck off home and count his millions - he's in no place to comment. I'd be more interested seeing an up and coming new artist's comments on the situation (preferably someone who has been signed thanks to online self promotion etc) rather than someone who merely wants more money to fund his gold toilet.

The illegal downloading debate has always been close to my heart as I work in the music industry so can see both sides of the coin. In pop terms, the major labels in particular HAVE fucked people over in the past in more ways than one, without doubt. Filesharing has killed the pop CD 'album' format, which has affected my job significantly. People seem to think of the music industry and think only of the major labels, seeing everyone as the fat cat Simon Cowell types who, in reality, make up a tiny percent of the management end of the label side of the industry. What about the hundreds indie retailers (like myself) outside the labels, who aren't making millions per year, relying on the tiny profits of sales to keep themselves in business? I suppose you'd have to do the job to give a shit. It has a knock on effect right the way through the 'industry', even down to the drivers who deliver the goods to your local HMV.

Speaking strictly in 'metal' terms, I think too many people lumped metal releases in with the 'rip off music industry'. Sure, I get as pissed off as anyone with the bigger metal labels releasing an album only to re-issue it with bonus material 2 or 3 times in the year after release. But, the likes of Roadrunner (who are distributed by Warner here in the UK) and Century Media (distro'ed by EMI) have obviously taken on the 'major label' business model in a desperate attempt to survive.

Whether you like it or not, there is an entire generation of kids who would never dream of paying for music - you know, the ones who say 'it's the new tape trading'. I used to be a tape trader, and I never remember thousands upon thousands of contacts with every album I could possibly dream of available instantly without any investment of time or money. To some, there seems to be this ideal that the world would be a better place without the music industry, that artists will have more control and total freedom. However, it's never that simple. In the past year alone, I've seen UK music distributors go into administration, including those who carry metal labels such as Napalm Records and Osmose. Ever noticed how it's getting harder to find physical releases of REAL underground metal, but simple to find them as illegal downloads? I didn't even see the bigger bands on Osmose and Napalm taking it upon themselves to release their own music, they merely floundered for a month or two with their labels until a new distribution route was found, courtesy of another small sub-label (SRD). It will get to a point where the smallest of labels will disappear (it's already started, in fact), and it's a shame to think we'll be missing out on so much great metal because of it.

Not all bands have the business savvy to record, produce, release and advertise their own music - and even if they do, how will most people likely find out about it? File-sharing, illegally. Thus, the bands won't produce any more music as it's not worth the money, time and effort poured into it - it's a vicious circle. Plus, for those who would be willing to pay - does anyone REALLY want to see music go entirely digital, with downloads available only through bands websites? Bands sure as shit won't be thinking of pressing their music in physical form - far too expensive for little or no return.

Also, on another note - the thought that bands who miss out on music sales will make their money through touring and merch sales is also a misnomer in the metal world. Just look at Nile - one of the best death metal bands out their at the moment - struggling to make ends meet.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=132721

[Jan]

Good post Lars.

I agree in your points - the development we are seeing will mean that less good metal music will be available to us in the future.

Musicians have to eat and make a living - just like the rest of us.  And if they on top of working a normal job, actually have to spend their own money to record the music we like, so that greedy people can grab it for free, it just become ridiculous.

Sadly the downloaders seems unable to understand this simple fact.

Frankly, I find their many excuses used to justify their behaviour truly pathetic. 

[luciferi]

The mp3 downloading boom pretty much started once I started getting interested in music, it brought metal to my ears, and for that I am eternally grateful. But I just couldn't stand being a 'download-fan', I just made up my mind that if I found a band or an album I really liked, I would support them by buying their stuff, shirts, CD's, whatever (It's actually quite ridiculous that I had to make up my mind to do so, having gotten used to tons of free music..  ). Alot of what lead me to that decision came from reading the editorials on this site, and various other metal / mp3 related discussions on forums. I became proud, and supportive of my music. Unfortunately in this day and age you don't have to be proud and supportive of music to aquire and listen to it.

I always liked to think that the metal scene was lucky to have such loyal supporters, and that we would more or less avoid the harsh repercussions of mp3 downloading. I guess I am very, very wrong. Really, until now I guess I was naive enough to think so. Hearing that even Nile has troubles, for instance.. bah.   

Bono should fuck off home and count his millions - he's in no place to comment. I'd be more interested seeing an up and coming new artist's comments on the situation (preferably someone who has been signed thanks to online self promotion etc) rather than someone who merely wants more money to fund his gold toilet.

Quoted for truth, and good post Lars!

[Lars]

Well, I'm not trying to be Lars Ulrich y'know - but I can see it all happening every day.

Of course, a lot of people download and buy - that's fair enough, I've done it myself. I'm not so blind to think of every illegal download as a 'missed sale'. People check shit out, if they like it they buy it - that's very similar to the old tape trading way I used to use (not counting the buying tapes, paying for packaging, paying for postage and the time actually sitting the recording the shit!). But for every one of those sort of people, there's a 100 who will sit on their hard drives full of illegally downloaded material, and that will be it for their contribution back to metal. These are the people who are shitting on the metal scene, the people who don't give anything back - never go to gigs, never buy merch, never buy CDs - they just sit in their rooms and produce methane all day.

If you can't afford it, fair enough. Back in the days when I couldn't afford it, I tape traded and bought what I could. Now, i'm lucky enough to afford to be able to help out the bands I enjoy, but this new generation will never want to - it's never been in their mindset. It seems anathema to some people, the very thought about 'paying' for metal. Guys I work with, who're in their late teens & early 20s, they laugh when they hear I buy CDs(!). It's sad.

But, it's very hard to compete with 'free' and 'instant'.  Illegal downloading will never stop, but I just worry that the 'art form' of music will eventually turn to shit with it at some point along the line.

[luciferi]

If a metalhead ever laughed at me for buying a CD, he'd get a solid piece of my mind and my fist.

I'm 20 years old, it seems I've picked up something your workmates haven't.

[Sargon the Terrible]

Part of the problem is that a lot of metal music is unavailable for purchase.  Less so in Europe, maybe, but I'd say 50-75% of what I download is stuff that it either A: long out of print, or B: impossible to find for purchase.  That's not true of bands like Nile, who are easy to buy, but a lot of underground metal is not there to buy even if you are sitting there with your credit card out.

Downloading is not going away, and people who think it can be policed are deluding themselves.  What is going away is the era when a band could just sign a deal, play shows, and let the label take care of promotion.  Bands will have to do more and more themselves, because while I don't think being in a band will become much less profitable than it already is (not very) I do think that labels and the need for a recording deal will decline.  The tools to record, mix, and distribute your own music at a professional level are becoming easier and easier to get and use, just as with publishing.  The line between self-publication and self-promotion get blurrier every year.  The whole system is in transition now, and labels clinging to the old business model are panicking, because they think this is the only way to do things.  But there are always going to be musicians who want to make music, and there will always be people with money they want to spend on said music, it's just going to be rough while things settle out into a new way of making that function.

[Lars]

I've never had any problems getting underground stuff personally, so I guess that must be a US thing. Generally if I can't find something at my usual distros I'll do a bit of research through google searches or go direct to the band website/label site and it's as easy as that. eBay has increased my collection considerably also. But, again - things WILL get harder and harder to find, even on the bigger metal labels. Not even Grishnakh's Necro Uber Kvlt shack will stock music if the downward trend of people not buying them continues.

The Chasm are a prime example of a band with a 'do it yourself' attitude, and I've heard their latest album is now out of print on CD already. However, these guys have years of back history, a strong fan base and albums released and promoted by labels like Earache in the past. Would they be selling out their albums now if they'd only made self releases since they started out? I'm not so sure, but I guess that's not the way things are at the moment so it's impossible to tell. It'll be interesting to see how things change over the next decade, I for one will be keeping a very close eye on it.

[MetalCrypt]

The Chasm's album isn't out of print: They're just not pressing tons of them at a time.  The first pressing of 500 was sold within just a few days.  Daniel told me he'd order new pressings as needed - as far as I know, there's is no set limit.

[luciferi]

Part of the problem is that a lot of metal music is unavailable for purchase.  Less so in Europe, maybe, but I'd say 50-75% of what I download is stuff that it either A: long out of print, or B: impossible to find for purchase.  That's not true of bands like Nile, who are easy to buy, but a lot of underground metal is not there to buy even if you are sitting there with your credit card out.

Downloading is not going away, and people who think it can be policed are deluding themselves.  What is going away is the era when a band could just sign a deal, play shows, and let the label take care of promotion.  Bands will have to do more and more themselves, because while I don't think being in a band will become much less profitable than it already is (not very) I do think that labels and the need for a recording deal will decline.  The tools to record, mix, and distribute your own music at a professional level are becoming easier and easier to get and use, just as with publishing.  The line between self-publication and self-promotion get blurrier every year.  The whole system is in transition now, and labels clinging to the old business model are panicking, because they think this is the only way to do things.  But there are always going to be musicians who want to make music, and there will always be people with money they want to spend on said music, it's just going to be rough while things settle out into a new way of making that function.

Very good points.

Daniel told me he'd order new pressings as needed - as far as I know, there's is no set limit.

I like the idea they're following.  


Also, I'll go ahead and be a smartass and point out your "..there's is" typo, as you are representing the grammar police, after all!  

[MetalCrypt]

I hit my head about 5 times installing new computer speakers tonight (damn cabling behind the desk.)  Some brain cells had to be affected.

[KevO]

The mp3 downloading boom pretty much started once I started getting interested in music, it brought metal to my ears, and for that I am eternally grateful. But I just couldn't stand being a 'download-fan', I just made up my mind that if I found a band or an album I really liked, I would support them by buying their stuff, shirts, CD's, whatever (It's actually quite ridiculous that I had to make up my mind to do so, having gotten used to tons of free music..  ).

It's the exact same story for me. I'm only 17 so, by the time I actually got into music let alone metal, digital distribution and file sharing were already enormously popular. For as much flak as downloading gets from the music community I know for a fact that there is no way in hell I would have been able to truly find music I now love without being able to sample songs for free as well as buy individual songs from places like iTunes. I only had/have so much money and how wasteful would I be if I bought albums without first making sure the music was good? Now, I've decided that when I do find a band I truly love I will always try to find a hard copy of their album to buy before trying other avenues, even legal digital distribution. I'm sad that bands are getting hurt by the way things now are but as technology improves modes of production and promotion will only become cheaper and more accessible so I'm of the opinion that there's room for hope.

 Gallows Hymn - Primordial

[Phoenix]

Nothing wrong with downloading really - when I have money, I buy CDs. I don't have a job, but I still buy them whenever I can.

[Bad_Bud]

I have a hard time finding metal CD's in the U.S. where I live, so everything I buy tends to be ordered off the internet.  When I do find a metal CD, it's typically only from one of five bands: Dream Theater, Edguy, Kamelot, King Diamond, or Sonata Arctica, but they are asking $20 for a damn CD and it's typically something I've already purchased off eBay for $7.

And as far as downloading goes - if it weren't for downloading, I would have never discovered metal or any of the bands I love today.  I support all my favorite bands by ordering albums whenever I can (which is not as often as I'd like).  But basically, where I live, you can't find metal or hear metal without the use of the internet.  I'm sure a lot of other U.S. citizens are in the same boat as I am, too.