Metal ethos

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[MetalMike]

Anyone who declines to listen to "metal" because of the lyrics runs the risk of missing out on good music.

[Sargon the Terrible]

So there is this band that plays in the musical style of heavy metal.

But, they have Christian lyrics.

Since we all know that the lyrics of music define a genre, and not the music itself, they are obviously not metal.

What type of music do they play?

Jesus Music.

And you know what?  If they play that shit, then I don't care what they call it, just don't try calling it metal.

[Master Cthulhu]

I guess if bands used lyrics that are actually good (IE Candlemass' Samarithan), then the music would actually be considered metal.

Because, then, you know, it would just be "metaphorical," and not just Christian, and therefore metal and not "Jesus music."

[Phoenix]

Sargon, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. What if a band that sounded like any given band you worship - let's just take Primordial for example - showed up and out-did any of those bands in their given style, but turned out to have Christian lyrical themes? You would still decry them? Despite them sounding musically astounding to your ears before you read their Christian lyrics?

I agree with the general sentiment that music comes first, but I certainly am no fan of Christian lyrics no matter how I look at it. There are lines bands can cross, too, between simple lyrical storytelling and annoying preaching, the latter of which is actually quite disgusting, and would negatively affect my enjoyment of the music at hand. Music is always the first thing to look at, yes, but those of you saying that it's the only thing that matters are being foolish. Lyrics and even image are all parts of the listening experience of a band.

Just imagine for a moment if you saw a band dressed like wiggers. Baseball caps, goatees, saggy pants and the whole get-up. Just imagine that their lyrics were the most deplorable Nazi propaganda you ever heard, but they also made some really amazing Thrash Metal, despite the conflicting imagery they associate themselves with. Would you really want to listen to them? It's not to say bands should only conform to metal stereotypes, but again, there are lines that can be crossed.

[Sargon the Terrible]

I have.  What a band means by their music is more important than anything else.  I have actually had to kick Powerwolf off my playlist for being Xtians.

[MetalMike]

Sargon, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. What if a band that sounded like any given band you worship - let's just take Primordial for example - showed up and out-did any of those bands in their given style, but turned out to have Christian lyrical themes? You would still decry them? Despite them sounding musically astounding to your ears before you read their Christian lyrics?

I agree with the general sentiment that music comes first, but I certainly am no fan of Christian lyrics no matter how I look at it. There are lines bands can cross, too, between simple lyrical storytelling and annoying preaching, the latter of which is actually quite disgusting, and would negatively affect my enjoyment of the music at hand. Music is always the first thing to look at, yes, but those of you saying that it's the only thing that matters are being foolish. Lyrics and even image are all parts of the listening experience of a band.

Just imagine for a moment if you saw a band dressed like wiggers. Baseball caps, goatees, saggy pants and the whole get-up. Just imagine that their lyrics were the most deplorable Nazi propaganda you ever heard, but they also made some really amazing Thrash Metal, despite the conflicting imagery they associate themselves with. Would you really want to listen to them? It's not to say bands should only conform to metal stereotypes, but again, there are lines that can be crossed.

That's a good point.  I would find that to be so utterly deplorable, there would be no way I could listen, even if the music was great.  I guess everyone needs to draw a line in the sand as to what they can listen to and what they cannot.  In that context, I am more able to understand Sargon's point.

[Sargon the Terrible]

It's just a question of what a band (or writer, or artist, or filmmaker) means by their work.  What intent is there?  What ethos do they follow, what do they indend their art to advocate or decry?  Every artist puts things like that into their work, even if they are not trying to.  The meaning behind the art is what matters to me.  I have gravitated towards metal not only because I find the sound to be something I relate to, but because the things that metal is about are things I can agree with and get behind.  Even the bands that do not take themselves terribly seriously have a who-gives-a-fuck attitude I can respect.  I am not a satanist, but I can easily enjoy satanic music because, let's be serious, most bands only use it in a theatrical way, and are as serious about it as a Hammer Movie.  And the bands that are serious I can respect because we share common enemies, and at least they are hanging their beliefs right out there and not acting like they are afraid to say what they mean.

That is the kind of Xtian band that pisses me off.  A band like Believer I won't listen to, but at least I can respect them the way you respect an enemy: they put it right out there, they aren't hiding anything.  The ones that piss me off are the ones who try and sneak it in, and you have to pay really close attention before you discover you are listening to enemy propaganda.  I guess they think they can slip in their jesus music and people won't catch it and then some magical light will come on and they will be born again.  It's fucking creepy is what it is, like some plastic-faced robot skanking his way into the cool group and trying to blend in, and then starting in with the 'did you guys ever think about god?' filth.  It's not metal, it is not 'rocking' or 'rebellious' or 'cool'.  If it has anything to do with Xtianity, then it is filth, filth, filth.  Filth.

[NecromantiConsecration]

Sargon, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. What if a band that sounded like any given band you worship - let's just take Primordial for example - showed up and out-did any of those bands in their given style, but turned out to have Christian lyrical themes? You would still decry them? Despite them sounding musically astounding to your ears before you read their Christian lyrics?

I agree with the general sentiment that music comes first, but I certainly am no fan of Christian lyrics no matter how I look at it. There are lines bands can cross, too, between simple lyrical storytelling and annoying preaching, the latter of which is actually quite disgusting, and would negatively affect my enjoyment of the music at hand. Music is always the first thing to look at, yes, but those of you saying that it's the only thing that matters are being foolish. Lyrics and even image are all parts of the listening experience of a band.

Just imagine for a moment if you saw a band dressed like wiggers. Baseball caps, goatees, saggy pants and the whole get-up. Just imagine that their lyrics were the most deplorable Nazi propaganda you ever heard, but they also made some really amazing Thrash Metal, despite the conflicting imagery they associate themselves with. Would you really want to listen to them? It's not to say bands should only conform to metal stereotypes, but again, there are lines that can be crossed.

I've already stated my opinion on christian lyrics in metal.

As for wiggers(or dudes dressed like wiggers in metal bands), I don't take those bands seriously. As for bands with pro-nazi themes I have no issues with that, it just adds to the controversy. Then again, since when was metal obligated to be politically correct?

[Master Cthulhu]

It's just a question of what a band (or writer, or artist, or filmmaker) means by their work.  What intent is there?  What ethos do they follow, what do they indend their art to advocate or decry?  Every artist puts things like that into their work, even if they are not trying to.  The meaning behind the art is what matters to me.  I have gravitated towards metal not only because I find the sound to be something I relate to, but because the things that metal is about are things I can agree with and get behind.  Even the bands that do not take themselves terribly seriously have a who-gives-a-fuck attitude I can respect.  I am not a satanist, but I can easily enjoy satanic music because, let's be serious, most bands only use it in a theatrical way, and are as serious about it as a Hammer Movie.  And the bands that are serious I can respect because we share common enemies, and at least they are hanging their beliefs right out there and not acting like they are afraid to say what they mean.

That is the kind of Xtian band that pisses me off.  A band like Believer I won't listen to, but at least I can respect them the way you respect an enemy: they put it right out there, they aren't hiding anything.  The ones that piss me off are the ones who try and sneak it in, and you have to pay really close attention before you discover you are listening to enemy propaganda.  I guess they think they can slip in their jesus music and people won't catch it and then some magical light will come on and they will be born again.  It's fucking creepy is what it is, like some plastic-faced robot skanking his way into the cool group and trying to blend in, and then starting in with the 'did you guys ever think about god?' filth.  It's not metal, it is not 'rocking' or 'rebellious' or 'cool'.  If it has anything to do with Xtianity, then it is filth, filth, filth.  Filth.

The same thing can be said for antichristian music, or Heathen pride music. Your statement just biased because you don't like Christianity.

[luciferi]

The same thing can be said for antichristian music, or Heathen pride music. Your statement just biased because you don't like Christianity.

Who likes christianity? Apart from christians, faux-christians, or the politically correct slaves with white collars who nod and tolerate everything to not stand out too much?

Any band who attempts to glorify, praise, or even tries to recruit people in the name of their god or christianity, will get nothing from me. Apart from the normal loathing I would normally spare for them. If they're playing metal music to their lyrical bullshit avalanche, I don't care if it sounds better than the best album and the best song of my favourite band, I wouldn't be able to listen to it, at all.

[Master Cthulhu]

Who like Paganism, apart from Pagans and Metalheads?

It's the same thing. Just because you don't think a lyrical theme is very "metal," that doesn't mean it isn't.

[Sargon the Terrible]

Okay.  I'm right, you are not.  Discussion over.